04 August 2017

Interview with 2017 RCSA Professional Recruiter of the Year: Erin Devlin of people2people

At the recent RCSA Winter Ball we had the unprecedented situation of three finalists for the 2017 RCSA Professional Recruiter of the Year being employed at one company. I am fortunate to to know the individual merits of each of those finalists (Catherine Kennedy, Sam Palmer and Erin Devlin) and would not have wanted to select a winner, let alone the competition from the other three finalists who I don't personally know (Emily Martyn, Stephen Veness and Michael Taplin).

Erin took home the prize on the big night and, after a recent family holiday on the other side of the world, kindly spared me some time to answer my questions about her win, her career and her advice on succeeding as a recruiter.
Ross: Congratulations on your win, Erin. I want to start bu discussing your background. Your path to becoming a recruiter was far from the norm in this industry – your first job was with The Australian Ballet. How did you progress from being a ballet dancer to choosing recruitment as a career?

Erin: Thanks, Ross. Amazingly, much of the same discipline applies in recruitment as in ballet. In both jobs you have to be very focused, self-motivated, resilient, and achievement and team oriented.  When I finished dancing in 2004 I travelled around the world working with Emirates Airlines. Settling back in Melbourne in 2007, I registered with Drake International as a temp. Instead I was offered a permanent job in their training department, where I observed the recruiters from afar, and shortly after approached the manager for a recruitment job.

I chose recruitment because for me it is the perfect balance between achievement, learning, teamwork, and rewards. I like learning about, and working with, growing businesses, working with high performing people, and being part of the growth of my clients’ businesses and candidates’ careers. I like that the harder you work in recruitment, the more you are rewarded, and it’s not discretionary. You work hard, you get rewarded – both financially and in outcomes.  Now for me it’s about seeing the growth of my team, including their individual careers, and the business overall.

What aspects of recruitment did you find the most challenging when you started?

Rejection: Even ballet doesn’t prepare you for the ‘nos’ you’re going to get in recruitment, but you very quickly learn to build your resilience, take nothing personally and move on.

How long did it take until you saw recruitment as a viable career choice rather than just a job? What was the catalyst for this switch in thinking?

For me this was after the first few placements. In how many other careers can you be rewarded for the hard work you put in in the same way that recruitment can reward you? You are in total control of your own success.

You started your own recruitment agency after less than three years as a recruiter. What motivated your decision to become an owner?

I’ve always had ambitions to run my own business. Even though I was only 24 at the time, I took on a franchise type arrangement with much higher risk, but much higher reward, and it paid off. This worked very well, but over time, ultimately it made financial sense to grow the business under my own brand into the future. I also wanted to deliver the highest possible level of service to clients and candidates, without restriction, and within an innovative environment. Now, still remaining an owner at people2people, but within a larger business framework, this has been the best recipe for success. I attribute this to the innovation, culture and leadership within the business.

What types of roles did you recruit when you were at Drake and what sort of roles do you recruit now that you are Managing Director, Victoria of people2people?

At Drake I focused on sales and marketing positions. As MD, VIC at people2people, I now focus on senior positions, account management, as well as rainmaking and business development for the team. I also often grow a desk to hand over to a new starter, so that they have a head start.

What do you do to continue the development of both your recruitment and personal skills?

Training has been integral to the people2people culture. I run many training sessions internally, and learn from my peers. At a personal level I learn a lot from my mentors, and continue to develop myself through resources such as Recruitment Juice, your leadership courses Ross, and undertaking RCSA courses. I have involved myself in volunteering with some of the RCSA’s committees, which also develops my professional knowledge further. I am also a mentor in the RCSA PEARL program. I also read a lot of books and industry publications.

When you were a full time recruiter growing your desk how did you use statistics or KPIs to manage your performance? If so which ones and how do you use them?

My highest pay off activities were having candidates meet with the right clients every week, and securing exclusivity on jobs and with candidates. I’d set clear activity goals for myself weekly around quality client meetings, interviews, marketing calls, floats and submittals. I liked to have at least 10 – 12 jobs on the go and a pipeline of top rated candidates that I was working with. I found that selling to solve the client’s problem, rather than trying to fit the exact brief was key, and I always had a focus on backing up my roles. Additionally, I focused on finding the right job for the candidate, not just trying to fit the candidate into the roles I had already. Overarching all of this was pace, decisiveness, influencing and partnering

Who have been important influences in your recruitment career and what have those people specifically contributed to you?

Greg Savage has been an enormous influence on my recruitment career. Over the past two and a half years he has helped me to evolve my leadership style, which has led to excellent financial and organisational results. He has challenged me, pushed me and inspired me, and assisted with some of the tougher challenges as the business has grown bigger each year.

Mark Smith has been an inspiration since we met back in 2014. He is an innovator and a market leader. People work for Mark because he is authentic, positive, innovative, does what he says he’ll do, and is always creating an environment at people2people where recruiters can be successful.

Along the way I have been lucky enough to be mentored by other industry leaders and developed relationships with RCSA councillors including recruitment leaders from Manpower, Aspect, Bayside, Smaart, Chandler Macleod, and other major agencies. Also the wider people2people team have had a big influence on my style and I have learnt a lot from being immersed in the company environment.

What do you attribute your win in RCSA 2017Professional Recruiter of the Year (2017) to?

I’m humbled to have been given this award. I think ultimately the award is about recognising those that have not only achieved financial success and rewards, but have also contributed to the industry for the better, and shown leadership and innovation. Financial success alone is not enough. I believe that you can achieve great financial success, whilst also being a positive influence on the industry and those around you.

What are the most important things that an individual recruiter can do to maintain his or her relevance and credibility in the next five years?

Innovate and don’t stop. Embrace the trends that are emerging now. Don’t be the last to get on board. Those methods that you have used for years may still be relevant, but could you be doing something faster, smarter, more effectively through technology, amplification or targeting?

Partnership and looking after stakeholders will never lose relevance either. If you remember that we are working with people every day, then you can continue to achieve great outcomes.

Also, find ways to add value to clients outside of the traditional recruitment process. Value yourself and your service. And, get off the email and pick up the phone!

What personal philosophies drive you each day in your job?

Energy, positivity and innovation; every day.

Pareto’s 80/20 rule and ‘Done is better than perfect’, or ‘Just do it’. That is get moving!

Get up and work hard every day. Always find ways to work smarter too.
Look after yourself, your staff, and your customers, and this will lead to great outcomes.

Celebrate the wins, focus on the positives and develop people’s strengths.
Lead, inspire, and be accountable every day.

What advice would you give to anyone who is just starting their recruitment career?

A career in recruitment is not easy, but incredibly rewarding. If you can focus, be clear on your goals, and put in the hard work, then you will not only work with some of the most fantastic individuals in business anywhere, but you will be financially, personally and professionally rewarded. Go for it.

Thanks for your time, Erin, I greatly appreciate it.

No problem, Ross, thanks for the opportunity.  

24 July 2017

The long game: is it Seek v Google (with agencies collateral damage)?

A couple of Seek-backed offerings, Onploy and Sidekicker, have created plenty of concern in the local recruitment industry over the past several weeks. Many meetings and phone calls have occurred between senior Seek executives and unhappy recruitment agency owners and the RCSA.

At the time of writing no definitive action has taken place but we are moving quickly in that direction.

One of the largest recruitment agency advertisers has requested that Seek discontinue their development of Onploy. The request is still being considered.

The Founder and Managing Director of Sidekicker, Thomas Amos, having viewed my blog last week containing exerts from a letter written to the RCSA about Sidekicker by Wendy Mead (Owner of Pinnacle People), broke from his annual leave and wrote to both Wendy and myself refuting the allegations that Wendy made. I have requested Mr Amos make his response public via the comments section of my blog. 

As the wagons are being circled I thought it might be worthwhile to dig into some public documents to understand more of Seek’s strategy and the execution of that strategy.

In last year’s address to the Seek Limited AGM (24 November, 2016), CEO Andrew Bassat elaborated on Seek’s progress in Phase 4 of its business model. Phase 4 is “Human Capital Management: Solving big problems around engaging and engaging and coordinating large pools of labour”.

Traditionally recruitment agencies have been the primary solvers of these “big problems”.

Clearly Seek want a piece of this action as  Seek’s vision is to be “the first choice for careers and talent”.

Seek is pursuing this vision riding hard on the back of the deep and unique pool of data at its disposal, as they make publicly explicit:  

It’s the use of this data that’s of big concern to recruitment agency owners.

This data has been gathered from the job ads of end users (ie recruitment agencies are end-user hiring organisations). These end users have paid Seek to run for these job ads. When candidates apply to the ads on Seek’s job site they are uploading their resume to the back end of the Seek site.

Every click and subsequent action on a Seek job ad by a candidate is valuable information. Every piece of updated resume information is valuable information. Aggregated across hundreds of thousands of job ads and hundreds of thousands of job seekers each year this information is of unquantifiable commercial value. No other company in Australia would come close to matching Seek’s “strong data moats”. 

The direct application of athis data are helpfully articulated by Anthony Ugoni, Seek’s Global Director for Analytics and Matching, in this video about Seek’s use of artificial intelligence and data analytics. Ugoni says that Seek have 28 to 30 algorithms that match candidates on their profile and their job seeking behaviour resulting in 5 million candidate emails each week, each containing an average of 6.5 job recommendations.

So is this data being used by Seek to inform the building of products by Seek, and it’s partly and fully owned subsidiaries; products that directly compete with Seek’s paying clients; recruitment agencies?

Although Seek has been explicit about its ownership of Onploy and Sidekicker this doesn’t apply to all Seek’s new products. Jora local which is owned by Hire Now Pty Ltd, a fully owned subsidiary of Seek , yet has no disclosure of its Seek ownership anywhere on its site. Why not?

Jora local is fulfilling the function of a recruitment agency, no matter what Seek might call it.

As at 6.20pm last Friday Jora Local had 811 live job ads posted on SEEK. This would make them one of Seek's largest advertisers, competing directly against Seek's recruitment agency clients. Compare Jora Local's ads to a sample of other established recruitment agencies' ads on Seek at the same time: Michael Page 833, Robert Walters 695, Hoban Recruitment 476, Frontline Retail 447, Adecco 429, Retailworld 395, Peoplebank 361, Smaart Recruitment 222.

You only have to look at the Onploy ads for Career Mentors to see that it’s really a recruitment consultant by another name; otherwise why ask for “3+ years recruitment experience”? 

These concerns might turn out to be small beer when you consider that Seek is now the majority owner of recruitment software provider JobAdder.

Seek has bumped up its 23% financial, non-controlling interest it’s held in the company since 2014 to a 60% controlling interest, now.

The two companies have "a highly successful working relationship", but will continue to work independently, Seek's group strategy director Simon Lusted said.

So let’s think about this a little. Seeks labels JobAdder as a “leading Australian applicant tracking and client relationship tool”. Remember what Seek told us it has:  


The public release, earlier this week of the long-anticipated Google Applicant Tracking System for SMEs, hot on the heels of May’s Google for Jobs clearly exposed the long game here for all the players involved – integrate job ads, candidate resumes and an ATS all in one easy-to-use online product offering.

What has Google used to inform the building of this offering? The vast amount of data it has at its disposal from many years of users’ Google activity.

A competitor with access to an equivalent bank of resources in the job ads, candidate resume and ATS areas would be a worthy and feisty opponent, especially if they had access to significant financial resources like a public company typically has.

A competitor that had access to such resources but had an ethical and customer dilemma in accessing, using and cross-pollinating some these resources might have to ask themselves some tough questions about which customer relationships are expendable and how much they are prepared to invest in legal fees and unhelpful PR to take on angry customers and an interested competition regulatory body.

Break out the popcorn; it’s going to be a fascinating few months ahead.   

12 July 2017

Sidekicker: Seek like more than one kind of cake

Onploy, which I wrote about last week, is a product promoting permanent recruitment services. Seek’s product targeting temporary services, Sidekicker has also been creating waves of its own.

Just over 12 months ago the AFR reported that “SEEK paid in the low single-digit million-dollar range for the stake, which is understood to be substantial but well under 50 per cent.”

The Sidekicker platform is simply temporary recruitment via an app. You register a vacancy, pre-screened (Every staff member has made it through a rigorous application process including a one-on-one interview and skills testing) candidates apply and you make an offer(s) to your preferred candidate(s). Both candidates and employers then review each other.

Sidekicker was founded in 2012 by ex-Deloitte Chartered Accountant Tom Amos. Sidekicker’s progress since mid-last year must have impressed the Seek board as two months ago industry news service, ShortList, reported that Seek had increased their investment in Sidekicker.

At the Australian Talent Conference last month a similar temp recruitment app, Weploy, was the winner in the Innovation Lab session on Day 2 of the conference.

So what’s the big deal you might think? Surely this sort of innovation is just life in the 21st century: If you can’t provide a compelling value proposition to your customers then surely you deserve whatever is coming your way?

Well, not really. It depends upon whether there is a level playing field.

Wendy Mead is the founder and Managing Director of Pinnacle People, who have been supplying hospitality staff for both temp and perm roles since they commenced business in 1991.

Mead is highly unimpressed with what she has witnessed from Sidekicker in the hospitality marketplace, believing it to be an example of Seek misusing its market power in an unethical and uncompetitive way.

Last week, in a letter to the RCSA, which Mead has made available to me, she details her many concerns about the activity of Sidekicker.

Sidekicker openly promote to their, and Pinnacle People’s clients (who I would prefer not to name at this time) that they have open access to every candidate who applies for advertised roles on Seek and that they are then hand-picked for Sidekicker.

Pinnacle People (alone) currently spends (well into six figures) with Seek to advertise a range of vacancies. The applicants who respond to these advertisements are, as I am led to believe by Sidekicker, harvested by Seek and funnelled to Sidekicker who market their platform to these candidates. By providing Sidekicker access to all candidate applications, Seek actively cultivates Sidekicker’s workforce not only in direct competition with that of its recruitment agency clients, but also leverages the brands, intellectual property and expertise of its agency clients to attract talent for Sidekicker.

In effect, our (total annual advertising spend) that Pinnacle People pay Seek to attract candidates using not only the Seek platform but our established brand and expertise in crafting targeted candidate attraction campaigns is significantly contributing to the development of its (partly owned) subsidiary business, Sidekicker.

Mead’s  letter to the RCSA goes on to specify an instance of Sidekicker’s unethical behaviour in providing to prospective customers an hourly rate comparison sheet of Sidekicker versus Pinnacle People’s rates, where the Pinnacle People rates are not accurate.

Of very significant concern is the potential unlawful behaviour of Sidekicker in charging candidates a fee for the service of finding them a job. To quote Mead’s letter further:

Sidekicker outlines in their marketing material “You set the hourly rate based on our guidelines and we charge your worker a fee for the connection, ongoing support and insurances.” It is my understanding that this is unlawful pursuant to the provisions of the Fair Work Act (2009). Section 323 of the Act requires that an employer pay an employee amounts owing to them in full in relation to the performance of work except as provided for in section 324 of the Act. 

Mead also raises her concern that Sidekicker’s direct hire or introduction service offering, lacks transparency as to the nature of the employment relationship and the accompanying legal obligations with respect to award rates of pay, superannuation, relevant loadings and payroll tax.

Mead’s letter highlights the concerns that many in the recruitment industry have about the various online employment platforms/marketplaces; that these offerings seem to have far less scrutiny applied to them in their dealing with candidates in temporary, casual or contract employment, compared to traditional recruitment agencies (who are highly and regularly scrutinised).

The RCSA are on front foot on this topic with an Online Workforce Solutions Working Group having been established late last year (disclosure: I am a member of this group).

Clearly this is shaping as a potentially epic battle ground for the recruitment industry.

If you have your own examples highlighting the potentially unlawful and/or unethical behavior of any non-traditional recruitment service/s (no matter what they might label themselves, a recruitment service is clearly what they are providing to the end user) then please email the RCSA CEO, Charles Cameron ccameron@rcsa.com.au directly.

This is not an issue to take lightly if you care about a fair, ethical and legal employment marketplace that is a level playing field for all who operate within it, regardless of what their business model is or what they call it.

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06 July 2017

Onploy: Do Seek want to have their cake and eat it too (again)?

For the whole of Seek’s life there has been an uneasy alliance between Australia’s largest jobs board, Seek, and its recruitment agency clientele.

In the early days, the large recruitment agencies were a very important foundation source of revenue for the fledging Seek at the end of the last millennium. Subsequent to Seek’s listing on the ASX in April 2005, recruitment agencies continued to be a key market for Seek as they aggressively spread their sales efforts into the corporate recruitment market.

When Seek’s Application Export was introduced in early 2012, it created a stir with agencies. Here was Seek setting up their own Applicant Tracking System in which candidates uploaded their details directly to the backend of the Seek site, rather than as had traditionally been the case, submitting their resume via the application method or portal of the advertiser’s choice.

Naturally the recruitment industry was sceptical when Seek’s PR machine presented this move as all about making it easier for candidates to apply from mobile devices and “….giv(ing) jobseekers every opportunity to apply for your roles by reducing barriers”.

Seek was cooing about the enhanced customer experience while the recruitment industry was unimpressed that their paid job ads on Seek were the vehicle through which Seek was directly stockpiling resumes that they would, almost certainly, use to create another product offering. And we know how that finished up, don’t we?

Of course the recruitment industry adapted to Seek’s move and five years later I doubt many recruiters would recall that this issue caused such a stir at the time.

Is history about to repeat itself with Seek’s new offering, Onploy?

Six months ago industry news service ShortList revealed the beta testing of Onploy, an employment marketplace of Talent Solutions Pty Ltd, a fully owned subsidiary of Seek Limited.

Details of the Onploy offering were not known at the time of the ShortList report but ShortList speculated that “… the site will operate in a similar vein to LiveHire or Nvoi, using a talent community or "marketplace" model.”

Onploy was publicly unveiled last week when ads appeared on Seek.com.au. From the copy of these ads, it’s clear that Seek have launched a talent community model that goes a step further than the model speculated about by ShortList.

Here’s what the ads say:

What is Onploy
We are a new startup based in Australia, backed by the SEEK Group. Onploy connects outstanding talent with Australia's best companies through an online, hiring marketplace.
With Onploy, our candidates are supported by our Career Mentors and are always in control. We showcase in-demand jobseekers on our platform where leading companies vetted by us can apply directly to them.

What we do
We take the search out of your job search.
You create a profile outlining your experience and what you're looking for next. Then, once approved, we set you live in our marketplace for a limited period of time and employers can approach you with real job opportunities tailored to your skill set. You are in complete control over who sees your profile and which opportunities you want to proceed with.

The mention of Career Mentors caught my eye.

I headed to https://www.onploy.com/ to see what it might say about these mentors.

The page https://www.onploy.com/how-it-works informs me:

Sign-up by creating a profile that best highlights your career experience and skills.

We will review your profile and, if there is a fit, you’ll be invited to join our exclusive marketplace.

Have your own personal Career Mentor
Once accepted on Onploy, you will be paired with your own Career Mentor who will help you through your job search. They are not aligned with any specific employer, but they will be your ally. Their goal is to help you navigate through the recruitment process and find the perfect job, not make commissions.

Your Career Mentor will help you polish your profile, prepare for interviews, and they'll drive the overall recruitment process on your behalf. They will know your industry and what it takes to land your dream job.

What exactly is a ‘fit’ in terms of a candidate being accepted onto the platform?

I suspect that with the vast amount of job ad, resume and job application data that Seek have at their disposal, they have created an algorithm to identify applications that match the ‘likely to hire’ criteria, and reject everybody else.

As of last week, the only opportunities that Onploy were advertising were those in the Retail Fashion sector, specifically management roles.

It’s hardly surprising that Seek would target Onploy at this part of the job market first as Retails Managers (221,000) are the fourth largest occupation category in the whole Australian job market and easily the largest Manager Occupation group (Advertising, PR and Sales Managers at 139,000 is the second largest).

In addition to large numbers of managers, the Retail sector also has high staff turnover, most recently reported at 41%.

Last Friday afternoon a simple Seek job search for ‘Manager’, ‘Retail’, ‘All Melbourne’ returned 1,004 results.

High employee numbers and high staff churn create an ideal combination to test the Onploy offering.

I went through the various screens for the Onploy application process and it was all pretty standard candidate information they were requesting at each stage. On the final screen you had the opportunity to list all the organisations you did not wish your details to be able to be viewed by. There was also a check box entitled ‘exclude all recruitment agencies.

Last Friday, I called Seek, wanting to understand more about the Career Mentors and the Onploy model generally.

Interestingly, within two hours of putting in a call to the Seek public relations team, leaving a message to advise them of the specific nature of my call, all of the Onploy ads were deleted from Seek.

Sarah Macartney, Seek’s Corporate Communications and PR Manager, phoned me back on Monday morning and answered some of my questions. In a follow up email she stated:

“The role of the Career Mentor is to offer platform support on Onploy. Onploy is a technology driven marketplace for candidates, the career mentor is a supplementary support service to compliment (sic) the use of the marketplace, which is low-touch compared to the services a recruiter would provide. As I mentioned on the phone, the Career Mentor is not a recruiter, nor do they try to replicate the value proposition of a recruiter. The recruitment agencies that have used Onploy have had no issue with the role of the career mentor, as clearly they’re very different services.”

In a further email, in response to my questions regarding a formal launch, Macarteny said:
  • The Fashion Manager ads were deleted from Seek because that part of the trial had finished.
  • The Career Mentors were not necessarily formally qualified in any specific area (eg psychology, counselling etc)
“The trial phase will run as long as required to test out the business model and gain necessary learnings and insights. Once we get to that point, then we’ll be in a position to best understand what broader industry engagement is appropriate.”

Macartney also referred me to a generic FAQ on the Onploy website.

Macartney did not respond to my request to provide information about the number of mentors currently employed by Onploy or the basis of the mentors’ employment relationship with Onploy (ie employees, sub-contractors etc) or what the charges (or proposed charges) for the service are. I also requested to speak to the recruitment agencies participating in the Onploy trial. At the time of writing I had not received a response to this request, made at the beginning of the previous day.

So what do Australia’s largest recruitment agency advertisers think of Seek’s Onploy move?

Jacky Carter, Group Digital Engagement Director at Hays, Australia’s largest recruitment agency, was unconcerned with Seek’s latest move when I spoke to her on Monday.

“Hays and Seek have a close partnership and as part of this relationship we have regular meetings. At our meeting in April, Seek discussed Onploy in broad terms. We ddon’t see Onploy as competing with recruitment agencies, in fact it is likely to enhance/ build intelligence to help us source candidates more effectively.

Our experience of Seek is that they are very sensible about how they bring products to market. They are mindful of the customer experience and don’t rush into anything without careful planning including a full consideration of customer privacy and confidentiality”.

One of Seek’s largest advertisers in the retail sector is Frontline Recruitment Group (FRG). I spoke to FRG’s co-founder and Managing Director, Peter Davis about Onploy yesterday. Unlike Hays, FRG was caught completely unaware of the Seek move and only knew  of Onploy’s existence when one of the FRG recruiters forwarded Davis a copy of the, now deleted, Onploy advertisement for Fashion Retail Management opportunities/Store Managers that appeared on Seek last Thursday morning. Davis said:

“Onploy is just the latest in a series of Seek backed product releases. Each of these releases potentially erodes the traditional markets of recruiters. In Onploy’s case it is a step across a previously uncrossed line; Seek now have a product which provides clients with selected candidates for which a success fee is charged and a 90 day guarantee is provided. Strikingly similar to how a recruitment company operates in both methodology and business model. The fact that Onploy is only operating in two industries and geographical markets is incidental. If it works it won’t be long before it is operating across all sectors.

So what does this mean for agency recruiters? Every time technology impacts recruitment we are presented with more opportunities!

In my view accepting this technological advancement as an inevitability and working with Seek to understand these opportunities is the key.  I know Seek values its recruitment advertisers however I believe Seek needs to do more to educate us all on how we can leverage our recruitment expertise  to take advantage of these new products and in so doing ultimately provide better service to our clients and candidates.”

Davis advised me that FRG’s conversation with Seek about Onploy remains a very current and ongoing one and he would be in a position to say more publicly within a week or so.

Having canvassed the views of a couple of other retail recruiters, it seems that Hays were clearly the exception in Seek’s communication about Onploy to its recruitment agency clients. No other agency appears to have been told anything at all.

If this is the case, then I believe Seek is playing a very risky game.

Traditionally, Seek negotiates with its advertisers for the upcoming financial year during May and June. If Seek has not been transparent with these advertisers about Onploy and the specifics of the Onploy product offering then Seek runs the very real risk of being seen to conduct these negotiations while having failed to disclose a potential conflict of interest.

If this has occurred, then I suspect many recruitment agency owners would be checking the ACCC website under unconscionable conduct to understand how investigators at the ACCC may view Seek’s conduct during the aforementioned 2017/18 FY contract negotiations.

Have Seek overstepped the mark with Onploy?

I suspect the next few weeks will see some  very interesting developments in this story. Stay tuned. 

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